Communication in engineering teams when trust is low with Charity Majors

[00:03:44] Welcome and Introduction to the Livestream

Andrew Murphy: Hello everybody and welcome to Tech Leaders Launchpad Livestream. I'm Andrew Murphy, a tech leadership trainer and coach. When I became a tech leader 15 years ago, there weren't a lot of books, resources, people, and websites to learn from. So I started Tech Leaders Launchpad as a company dedicated to providing that training, support, and community for tech leaders. That's also why I started this live stream—to share my mentors and coaches with you, people who have helped me get better and who support the community. Today we're talking about communication when trust is low with Charity Majors, CTO of Honeycomb. Charity, welcome to the live stream. Would you like to give a quick intro to yourself before we kick off?

Charity Majors: Sure. Thanks for having me. My name is Charity Majors. I'm the co-founder and CTO of Honeycomb IO, the original observability company. I still identify as an ops engineer. I've been an engineering manager a couple times in my career, and this is my first time being above line manager. It's been really educational. I'm excited to be here and talk about some of those things.

[00:04:28] Format, Audience Q&A, and Setting the Stage

Andrew Murphy: Awesome. For those of you joining us on LinkedIn and YouTube, know that you can post questions or comments in the chat and we can share them and talk about them with you. I've prepared a bunch of questions to ask Charity about the blog post she wrote—the one I asked her to come talk about today. But this is going to be more of a discussion and conversation than an interview. My job is to make sure you leave this with actionable outcomes—something you know you can do tomorrow to be better. So I'll be asking very pointed questions to make sure we get there.

Charity Majors: Excellent.

Andrew Murphy: Nothing worse than seagull advice—people just flying over and shitting, pooping on you. I'm not sure how PG-13 this is, but I always hate getting advice from people who make it sound easy or have listicles like "Five easy ways to make sure your engineering team is always thriving." Come on—if it isn't messy, it isn't real.

Charity Majors: Totally.

Andrew Murphy: I'm a fan of models because they help you structure your thinking, but you have to go through the process of how this actually applies to your particular scenario.

Charity Majors: Totally awesome.

Andrew Murphy: As for language, think of it like: someone might be listening in their car or watching with friends in an office. We're not necessarily strictly PG-13, but let's speak how you would in a normal environment of professional adults.

Charity Majors: Good policy.

[00:07:13] Charity’s Journey into Engineering and Leadership

Andrew Murphy: Moving into your journey: what got you into engineering and then into leadership? How did that come about?

Charity Majors: Yeah. I was homeschooled, a serial dropout, and a music major in college—20 different majors in five years. I was diagnosed with ADHD just two years ago—which surprised nobody who knew me! I got into computers because they were fun. I grew up basically at a fundamentalist compound where all the women had babies and cooked. When I saw the computer labs filled with all dudes, I was like: "That's for me." I started hanging out in the UNIX labs. A lot of internalized misogyny, which I had to unpack later, but it was a shield early on. Microaggressions didn't bother me. Who cares if I'm paid less? I'm making money!

I gravitated towards operations because the messy reality—when bits hit disk and everything catches fire—is what I love. I made a career of being the first infrastructure engineer joining a team of software engineers at early-stage startups after they started to take off. I'd hire, we'd grow, and I'd move into management, eventually moving on after a while. I'll admit, I never went into management for the usual reasons people say (loving mentoring, loving the people side). For me, it was wanting a seat at the table. If I had to be a manager to get in, so be it.

I believe strongly in transparency—it connects people to their work and keeps folks engaged as they get more senior. I remember how it felt to be shut out of conversations and decisions. I'm committed to never building a company where that's true.

[00:10:06] Leadership, Power Structures, and Transparency

Andrew Murphy: Interesting—there’s often two responses to power structures: "I shouldn't have to be part of that" or, "I'm going to make it work for me so I can help others." It sounds like you had the second mindset—to make change by being part of it, not just rejecting it.

Charity Majors: I've never encountered a hierarchy I didn't want to overturn! I have a deep anti-authoritarian streak. It's productive—I get a lot of motivation from wanting to prove people wrong and to achieve. As co-founder/CTO, not having that layer above me is a new challenge. I have to relearn motivation—if someone isn't telling me what to do (which I can rebel against), it's different. But, yes...

Andrew Murphy: That's a fascinating topic—how moving into executive level changes how you view and operate in the organization. You become accountable for everything and have to decide how to motivate yourself.

Charity Majors: It can be paralyzing. My friend Jessatron said, "Every job changes you as you do it." Becoming a manager isn't a switch—it takes a year or two to find your feet. You have to literally rewire yourself if you switch between management and IC. Often, managers have little credibility when times are tough, but senior engineers who've been managers can translate what's really going on to others. You see the organization through a new lens. We tend to assume the worst of others, but these are complex systems staffed by people trying to do the right thing.

In social sciences, it's called the fundamental attribution error. When judging ourselves, we look at our motives; with others, we judge outcomes.

Andrew Murphy: Right—if someone cuts me off in traffic, they're a jerk; if I do it, I have a reason.

Charity Majors: Exactly. We're opaque to each other—it’s a muscle you have to practice, extending that grace.

[00:15:31] Building Trust: Inspiration Behind the Blog Post

Andrew Murphy: That leads to why we're here—the blog post and the idea of assuming positive vs. negative intent. Want to share what inspired that post?

Charity Majors: Sure. The whole "assume positive intent" thing gets a bad rap because it can excuse bad behavior ("just assume the best"). We've shifted it to "communicate positive intent"—the onus is on you to communicate positively. As for the blog post—it spilled out in 30 minutes. Usually writing isn’t like that, but behind it was a lot of trauma!

The first five years of Honeycomb were rough—category creation, survival, and my relationship with my co-founder Christine was strained. We’re complete opposites—our communication needed debugging. There were times when we couldn't be in the same room. We thought everyone could sense it, and it was stressful. We had to get very explicit—"here’s what I think I’m hearing, here’s how I feel, is this what you meant?"—pausing to not fall into free fall when triggered. A lot of lessons in the post come directly from times when we had to get better at this. I wrote it for our team and am happy it resonated widely.

[00:18:52] Separating Intent and Decoding Communication

Andrew Murphy: That idea of separating the message from the meaning/intent is so important. In communication training, I talk about encoding (in your own mind), translation (speaking/writing), then decoding (the other person’s mind). That translation layer introduces many chances for miscommunication. It's like encoding a JSON object when the endpoint expects XML; your intent might not be received as you sent it—not due to malice, just a mismatch.

Charity Majors: That’s a great metaphor! Absolutely true. Much of this circles back to self-knowledge—taking responsibility for what’s going on inside yourself, monitoring your reactions, admitting mistakes ("I'm sorry I did that. Here’s how I'll try differently next time"). Christine and I have done this thousands of times. Now we know how to fight: we still piss each other off, but know how to repair. Most of the time we want the same thing, so it's about remembering that.

[00:21:23] How to Build Understanding When Trust is Low

Andrew Murphy: That underlying knowledge of the other person helps, but you two built that. How did you get to where you have these "shortcut" conversations?

Charity Majors: Doing it over and over. For example, any perceived use of authority—if I feel she’s "doing CEO shit"—sets me off. She knows I hate it, so now I can pause and check: "This phrase set me off." She can say, "Sorry, here’s what I meant," or explain further. She knows my triggers and prepares me if something she does might set me off. With ADHD, sometimes emotions are thin-skinned, and I can't control my expression. She’ll give me a heads up so I have space to process. A lot of things in the blog post—like using more emojis for emotional context—are now habits for us. Sometimes we're explicit even when we don't have to be, just out of care.

[00:24:03] The Importance of Self-Awareness and Boundary Setting in Leadership

Andrew Murphy: It's about self-awareness and social awareness, knowing your own triggers and explaining them, right?

Charity Majors: Yes! When I started reading about "boundaries" in therapy, it didn’t make sense at first. But in leadership, you have to constantly negotiate: how much can I take responsibility for someone else? There are porous boundaries—when things are chaotic, you can't focus on people's growth, but in stable times, you can give more grace. You can't lead by chance; you need consistency, self-awareness, and the ability to explain your actions so others can challenge or understand them.

[00:26:33] Moving from Instinct to Intentional Leadership

Andrew Murphy: The conscious decision making versus just reacting—it sounds like that's a major transition from management to real leadership.

Charity Majors: Yes. As a line manager, you run on gut instinct—whatever made you successful as an IC. But as a director, each manager below you has a different recipe. You can't just teach them what worked for you; you have to step back, rethink what's really important, and help them build their own frameworks and intuition.

Andrew Murphy: Exactly—sometimes their approach is totally different from yours, and that's OK.

[00:29:01] Engineering Positive Interactions (Not Manipulation) When Things Are Tough

Andrew Murphy: In your blog post you mention a ratio of positive to negative interactions—engineering positive moments. Some worry this is "manipulation." Could you expand on the intent?

Charity Majors: The concept is not the "shit sandwich" (praise, negative, praise), which can be patronizing. If you have corrective feedback, deliver it directly. But when a relationship is strained because of repeated negative feedback, every interaction feels fraught. You start to dread each other. To repair, you need neutral and positive experiences—going to dinner, small thank-yous, or appreciating each other in trivial ways. It reconnects you with their humanity and reminds you of what you like about one another. Giving genuinely specific praise is an art—we don’t do it enough. People start to take great work for granted. Good, specific feedback (not just "you’re awesome" but exactly why) matters. When things aren't going well, force yourself to create positive experiences so you don't end up dreading even talking to each other.

[00:32:46] The Power of Specific and Timely Feedback

Andrew Murphy: Being specific in both positive and negative feedback is powerful—it helps people understand what you mean.

Charity Majors: Yes! There’s so much fear about "negative feedback," especially with high performers. Some managers coddle top performers instead of telling them what they could do better. But good people crave growth. The trick is to turn feedback from oppositional ("you") to collaborative ("we’re shoulder to shoulder"—here’s how you could be even more awesome). Most of us don’t grow up loving negative feedback. We have to learn to appreciate it as adults—getting it early and often keeps issues from festering into toxic situations.

Andrew Murphy: I compare it to ignoring a small noise in your car until you break down—deal with issues while they're small!

Charity Majors: Exactly! I grew up in a kind family, but we never talked about hard things. Becoming a manager forces you to have those hard conversations—people’s careers depend on it. Over time, you get used to it, and your life—and relationships—get better if you learn to lean into discomfort instead of avoid it.

[00:38:21] Live Q&A: Feedback, Psychological Safety, and Models

Andrew Murphy: Let’s pause for questions. Lindsay says you can curse away! Hello from Argentina, Cecilia—and Charity, you’re in San Francisco, right?

Charity Majors: Yes, San Francisco.

Andrew Murphy: Cecilia says your blog is an inspiration, and Ruthie comments about psychological safety.

Charity Majors: Hi Ruthie! All feedback is bi-directional. When we make it something forced on us, it’s harder—acknowledge you might be wrong, and open it as a conversation. A lot of the pain of feedback comes from power structures; it helps to depersonalize and co-create solutions.

Andrew Murphy: Chaitanya mentions the SBI model (Situation, Behavior, Impact)—keeping feedback about observed behavior, not assumed intent, is key. If someone’s on their phone, it could be for a legit personal reason—don’t assume intent!

Charity Majors: Absolutely. This is a trap with diverse teams—different cultures have different communication cues, so focusing on behaviors and impact, not assumptions, is equalizing.

[00:43:16] Developing a Growth Mindset

Brett: I’m curious—you said you didn’t grow up with a growth mindset. What’s your journey to developing that?

Charity Majors: Even at Facebook, I’d get written reviews, skim them, and fixate on any criticism, completely discounting praise. Only after becoming a manager did I see it from the other side—I realized managers have to give feedback, and it's frustrating when people can't hear it. I read Carol Dweck’s "Mindset" and started asking for feedback directly. If I ask for it, I feel in control. I also regularly invite criticism from my team—it’s the leader’s job to make it safe for others to give feedback, not blame them if you aren’t getting enough input. I always say, "My love language is criticism" (which is not true for anyone!), just to invite more honest feedback.

Andrew Murphy: Fong comments that as an employee, craving constructive feedback but not getting it can feel like you’re doing something wrong. I tell every boss: "When you give me feedback, I’ll have an emotional reaction, but keep going—that's my problem to handle, not yours!"

Charity Majors: I think that’s brilliant—preparing people for your reactions really helps.

[00:47:56] Scaling Feedback and Communication Across an Organization

Andrew Murphy: Most of our audience is new leaders, but we also have experience in the room. How do you build a culture of healthy feedback and communication across an entire organization?

Charity Majors: Great question—nobody has this perfectly nailed. Leading by example helps—publicly taking tough questions. Your values matter; our company value used to be "Feedback as a gift" but we changed it to "Feedback as a muscle"—something you practice. For managers: no surprises in performance reviews; nobody should ever be fired or put on a PIP without hearing "Your job is at risk" explicitly, and you have to say it specifically. When giving serious feedback, follow up in writing so it’s clear. But it’s not just about negative stuff—celebrate positive moments publicly (slack channels, all-hands shout-outs). Praise is a powerful weapon—whatever you reward, you get more of, so be intentional. For example, in ops, over-praising heroics leads to more burnout heroics. Hold each other accountable for praising the quiet, consistent, high-quality work too.

Andrew Murphy: I agree—all feedback should be constructive. Positive feedback encourages a behavior, negative discourages. Both are needed!

[00:52:44] Wrap-up, Upcoming Talks, and Final Thoughts

Andrew Murphy: That brings us to the end of the hour. Thank you so much, Charity, for joining me, and thanks everyone for your questions! Charity, any upcoming talks or things you'd like folks to check out?

Charity Majors: I’ll be keynoting SRECon in a couple of months with Corey Quinn—super exciting. My blog is at charity.wtf, and I just published a post today on observability tooling costs on the Honeycomb blog. On Twitter, I’m @mipsytipsy.

Andrew Murphy: Awesome. I highly recommend Charity’s blog—I'm an avid reader. If you liked this livestream, our next is with Lars Klint on "unsticking your career." If you want more tech leadership content, subscribe to my newsletter (best way to keep up) or follow me on LinkedIn. If you want a chat about anything tech leadership, scan the QR code. Thanks again to everyone—see you in a couple of weeks!

Charity Majors: Thanks. Bye!