Should I work in an Agency or a Product Company?

[00:03:03] Welcome and Introductions

Andrew Murphy: Hello everybody and welcome to another Tech Leaders Launchpad Livestream. For those of you for whom this is your first time, I'm Andrew Murphy, founder of Tech Leaders Launchpad. This livestream brings together the people that I learn from in the industry, the people who help me become better, and after learning a lot of things the hard way, I do everything I can now to make sure you don’t have to. Today I’ve got with me Phil Johnson, and we’re going to be talking about agency vs product vs consultancy. Phil and I used to work together at Linktree, which is how we know each other. But Phil, do you want to give people a little bit of a background introduction to yourself, where you came from, and why this topic is something you think people will benefit from?

Phil Johnson: Sure. As Andrew said, I worked with him at Linktree. I'm currently a tech lead at Prezzee, and I've been there just over a year. Prior to that, I was a lead engineer at Linktree. Going back to the beginning, I started out in the agency space—I actually started as a designer for a publisher when I was studying at uni, working on physical media. It was there I began doing more development. I built a conference management platform as a solo engineer while still at uni. The code was shocking and insecure—definitely wouldn’t build it that way again! But it got me into the space. I finished up, moved into agency work in Brisbane for four years, doing everything from development to filmmaking. I studied film at uni. After that, I moved to Melbourne and worked for Bolster, a creative agency focused on digital marketing and events—they also founded Linktree, which is how we met.

Bolster built Linktree, which became what it is today, and that's how I ended up moving from agency into product at Linktree. In summary, I have solid history in agency life but also have seen how products are built and become their own thing, which is how a lot product companies start. That’s a bit about me.

[00:06:52] Early-career stories and learning the hard way

Andrew Murphy: Cool. I didn’t know that part of your history—starting out and building something from scratch. I had a very similar experience. In the UK, we often do “sandwich” university courses: you go to university for a couple of years, then work for a year in industry, then back to finish your degree. I worked for a fire and fireplace manufacturer in Huddersfield, England, as the only software developer, building all their business operations software from scratch—order management, stock management, all that. As a fresh-faced developer who knew the tech but not the commercial world, I look back, and it’s shocking: I built my own ORM, concatenated SQL strings, didn’t know about SQL injection—it just wasn’t taught. It’s an amazing experience, but also something we shouldn’t repeat as an industry.

Phil Johnson: Oh yeah, for me, I didn’t do it as part of uni either. There was an option to do 6 months in industry, but I just decided to apply for jobs while studying to get my foot in the door. Same deal: built things I definitely shouldn’t have—in ways I definitely shouldn’t have. Back in the days when people stored passwords in plain text and thought nothing of it!

[00:08:49] Mistakes in early career and learning from failure

Andrew Murphy: I should do a livestream just on mistakes and bad decisions, because there are so many experiences from years ago that still haunt me. Our industry makes it very easy to make mistakes with big impacts. “Coding Catastrophes”—that’s a great name for that livestream.

Phil Johnson: Yeah, that’s a good one—Crowdsourcing on that idea.

[00:09:36] Audience questions and approach for the livestream

Andrew Murphy: If you have questions, please do ask! Our goal is to make these livestreams applicable straight away—not just interesting but actionable. Both of us have worked in agency and product; I’ve also done consultancy. So, if you want to know our experiences, or the differences, please ask. We’ll answer as many as we can. If you need to leave early, this is recorded on LinkedIn and YouTube, so you can catch up. Cool, let’s kick off the discussion: Product vs Agency vs Consultancy. Before we dive into comparisons, maybe it’s worth defining what we mean by those terms. Phil, how would you define agency vs product—and where does consultancy fit in?

[00:11:34] Defining Agency, Product, and Consultancy

Phil Johnson: For me, agency work is client-led: you have a team, designers, maybe developers, but ultimately you work on projects initiated by clients—they employ you to build what they want. Product, on the other hand, is usually internally led: you develop a product, continuously improve it, and you set the direction, which is a big mindset shift after agency life—both have upsides and downsides. Consultancy, which I haven’t done much of, is somewhere in between: as a subject-matter expert, you go into a product or client space, lend your expertise, and can phase in or out depending on whether the engagement suits you—you can’t really do that with agency without it looking bad. That’s how I see it. What’s your take?

[00:13:31] How Andrew sees the distinctions

Andrew Murphy: I agree with you. My concise explanation is: if you get the benefits from the software you’re building, you’re a product company; if you’re paid to build it but don’t benefit from its success, you’re an agency or consultancy. If you’re paid an hourly or fixed rate to build, that’s likely agency/consultancy. To differentiate: if the client engages a team, it’s an agency; if they engage individuals, it's consultancy. That’s just how I think of it—do you agree?

Phil Johnson: Yeah, that sounds right. Agency is client-led, product is internal-impact—who sets the rules? If you or the users, it’s product; if the client, it’s agency or consultancy. Payment model clarifies it.

[00:15:29] The dynamics and complexity of agency-client relationships

Andrew Murphy: From my time running the software side of agencies, we had fascinating discussions on our responsibility in the business side of a client’s product. Do we advocate for the users or for the client paying us? For example, if our research says the client shouldn’t do what they want, what’s our role? No clear answers!

Phil Johnson: As head of web at Bolster, I faced that too: clients would ask for things they didn’t have the budget for, or which would cause pain to our team. Sometimes I’d say “this isn’t for us” and recommend they find another agency. No problem pushing back on those projects.

Andrew Murphy: Exactly. Or the classic: “We want to build the Amazon of dog food.” My answer: Cool, do you have Amazon's budget?

Phil Johnson: Or the same timeline as Amazon!

[00:19:03] Choosing where to work—factors that matter in different stages of your career

Andrew Murphy: Suppose someone a few years into their career asks what they should do—product, agency, or consultancy? Phil, when you’re looking for a job, what’s important to you?

Phil Johnson: It depends on where you are in your career. What I wanted 5 years ago is different from now. For me, now it’s about believing in the company’s mission and being interested and challenged. Some people care most about global impact or strong ethics. Others just want the highest pay. For me, it’s about challenge, enjoyment, and belief in the work. You also have to think about work-life balance. Younger, I was happy to work 10-15 hour days for the right project—much harder now with a family. So, priorities shift over time.

[00:21:23] Adjusting work and life priorities, and career stages

Andrew Murphy: I worked at a SaaS product startup before it was even called that, and it was probably the happiest I’ve been: 10–12 hour days, equity, loving the grind. But now that’s hard to do with family and other commitments. Your life stage affects what’s important. Also, your career level affects your experience—juniors, seniors, managers have different needs. For example, it’s harder for a junior to get support in agencies, where hours worked are directly linked to company income. Agencies struggle to afford juniors “on the bench” or seniors supporting them. Instead, juniors tend to get better support in product companies. Do you agree?

Phil Johnson: Totally agree in general. Though the agency matters too. I was a junior with maybe one other engineer. I had to self-learn and seek out resources—good for building independence and self-starting, but you pick up bad practices along the way. In an agency, you face everything yourself; in product you can escalate to other specialties. That experience can make you strong but also means you lack the best practices you’d learn from seniors in product. Product is great for learning the right way, but you may not see the “wrong” ways or how to problem-solve alone.

[00:26:06] Breadth vs depth—What kind of experience do you get in agency vs product?

Andrew Murphy: Is it about breadth vs depth? In agency, you jump between projects, getting more exposure to different tech, business models, ways of building software. In product, you’ll likely see greater technical depth and scale, but not so much variety. Is that your experience?

Phil Johnson: Absolutely. That’s what I loved about agency—constant new challenges, shifting between websites, live systems, all sorts, learning new stacks. But you rarely dig deep into things like microservices, scale, or specialized architecture—those are more product spaces. Agencies are good for breadth when you don’t know what you want to specialize in, then you might go deep in product later. Large agencies may offer depth, but for startups it’s all about variety.

[00:28:51] Personal preference and long-term investment in agency vs product

Andrew Murphy: It’s a personal choice. I’ve done three tours in agencies and, after my last, decided to focus on longer-term investments—decisions with 1-2 year payoffs, investing in systems and teams for the long-run. That kind of thinking is hard in agencies, sometimes possible in consultancy, which can parachute you in on long-term projects, but often you aren’t there for the start or end. You might be on a year or two of a five-year project. Have you done much consultancy, Phil?

Phil Johnson: Not really—mostly product and agency. I see consultancy as good for experienced folks wanting to freelance or shape their own career, but you need a breadth of agency and product experience beforehand.

Andrew Murphy: I see the difference as agency = buying a team; consultancy = buying an individual’s expertise. As a consultant you might have more influence but don’t have the team’s backup. Upsides and downsides to both.

[00:33:26] Shifting roles and growth opportunities inside companies

Andrew Murphy: In an agency or product company, you can often move between roles. At Linktree, we had someone move from senior engineer to product manager, adjusting responsibilities to let her try it out. That’s hard to do in consultancy—they hire you for a specific skill and expect you to do exactly that.

Phil Johnson: Yes, at Prezzee (product), you can easily try new things. In an agency, you might be forced to fill needs you didn’t anticipate. Product is more controlled—easier to specialize. Agencies hire generalists, and you may end up as “the full stack now” just because the business needs it.

[00:35:25] Flexibility and talent utilization differences

Andrew Murphy: In agency, I only hired full-stack devs—you might be 70/30 front/back but had to do both. Every project team had to “cover the bases,” and sometimes you did work you didn’t prefer. In product, you can better match work to talent; agency work is driven by external client needs. Sometimes you just didn’t have mobile work for a mobile dev, and had to move them over to web, for example.

Phil Johnson: Yeah, we never had “pure” mobile dev in our agencies. We’d use JavaScript frameworks to build mobile apps because our team was web-focused. With the right frameworks you can bounce between stacks, but it’s complicated.

[00:38:23] Breadth-to-depth transitions—challenges going from consulting to product

Andrew Murphy: Good question from UJ: if you’re used to consulting (breadth), what challenges do you face moving back to a product company (depth)? Phil?

Phil Johnson: For me, moving from agency to product, it was tough giving up the constant variety. In product, you focus on continuous improvement—you can’t “bounce” from project to project anymore, which is a mindset change. In big products, everything takes longer, and you have to accept that incremental delivery is the norm. Colleagues in big orgs say it can now take three months just to add a button!

[00:41:13] The delivery cycle and the difference between startups and scale-ups

Andrew Murphy: We’re lumping all product companies together, but there’s a huge difference between a five-person startup and 500-person scale-up. In established product orgs, delivery is much slower, and you’re involved in the full work definition process (which clients might do upfront for agencies). As a senior, you now get exposed to—and potentially frustrated by—the whole product cycle: idea in Q1, started Q3, shipped Q1 next year!

And yes, this is all recorded and posted on YouTube, LinkedIn, and my website.

[00:44:35] Surprises moving from agency to product

Andrew Murphy: Anything surprise you moving to product?

Phil Johnson: Not really surprising, but having a big team around you was a massive benefit—20, 30, 40 engineers to bounce ideas off helps a lot. Also, being able to invest time in perfecting things, like building internal libraries or SDKs. You rarely get that time in agency life.

[00:46:54] Agency economics and incentives vs product

Andrew Murphy: One surprise for me was the economics: at agencies, the link between work and revenue is direct. In product, there’s separation—no one knew the revenue per headcount at Linktree, but in agencies, that’s always top of mind. That brings pros and cons, and is something product companies could learn from agencies.

[00:50:58] Who should work at an agency? Salary thoughts and timing in your career

Andrew Murphy: UJ asked: “Who should work in an agency? At what point in your career is it optimal?” Salary-wise (in Australia): early career, product pays better. In the middle, it depends. Later, agencies and consultancies may pay best, especially in leadership.

Phil Johnson: I think that’s true for consultancies, but not always for agencies. Small, startup agencies often pay less; consultancies or big agencies pay more. For learning, agencies are great early on—work three or four years, learn a ton, then jump to product for pay and stability. You’ll know how to work fast and how not to do things, which product teams value.

Andrew Murphy: For juniors, product gives you more structure. In agencies, you must direct your own learning. So, if you need structure, start in product; if you’re independent, agencies teach a lot very quickly.

Phil Johnson: Exactly. People who work best with clear tickets and process: product. People who like figuring things out: agency.

[00:54:29] Which environment is friendlier—agency or product?

Andrew Murphy: Which has friendlier teams? I think it’s less about agency vs product and more about individual company culture. Both can be good or bad; agencies tend to be more hectic, but startups can be crazier than established agencies.

Phil Johnson: Agreed. Product companies may try to create deliberate cultures; agencies, especially startups, can be more organic—e.g., playing Mario Kart in the office. It just depends on the people around you—great or terrible cultures exist in both.

[00:57:23] Skills that distinguish consultants from product engineers

Andrew Murphy: What skills make a consultant stand out compared to a product engineer?

Phil Johnson: I haven’t been a consultant, but I think stakeholder management is key—knowing how to drive consensus and manage clients is essential. There are more people to help with that in product engineering; as a consultant, it’s expected you do it yourself. You have to be able to direct, advise, and provide solutions (not just highlighting problems).

Andrew Murphy: 100% agree. I used to advise managers: If you have a candidate who is a 5/10 communicator and 8/10 technically vs a 5/10 technically and 8/10 communicator, hire the communicator. Success in consulting and agency projects depends on stakeholder relationships. Especially in small agency teams, you need most engineers to interact with the client; even in bigger teams, at least half need strong communication.

[01:01:19] Closing remarks

Andrew Murphy: We’re at time. Thanks Phil for joining—great discussion. Sorry to those whose questions we didn’t reach; feel free to continue in the comments on YouTube/LinkedIn. If you want to book a 20-minute chat or follow me for future streams, all the info is above. Phil, anything else to add?

Phil Johnson: Thanks for having me! Great fun talking agencies and products.

Andrew Murphy: Such a personal topic, but with patterns and trends. Thanks everyone, see you next time on Tech Leaders Launchpad livestreams. Goodbye!